EPISODE SUMMARY
Chris Thornbutgh and Lori Crowder
CBCT stands for Cone Beam Computed Tomography, and it's very similar to regular traditional CT except it's low energy/radiation.
In this episode, Chris Thornburgh and Lori Crowder, owners of CBCT Encompass solutions talk about the technicalities, logistics, financing, etc. of different types of imaging methods. Most importantly the discussion is centered around what a patient can get out of going to a Doctor who uses this technology.
CBCT Systems
CBCT Youtube Videos
Here's what a 3-D CBCT looks like
CBCT short intro to Blair Upper Cervical analysis.
To contact Ruth:
806-747-2735
ruth@blairclinic.com
https://www.facebook.com/rutelin
Transcript
Welcome, welcome, welcome to What Pain in the Neck. I am Ruth Elder, your host, and in this podcast episode, I am really pleased to introduce not just one, but two guests that I have come to consider my friends over the last. Maybe three years. Chris, I think it's been three years since I first met you.
Chris: Yes.
And Lori, I've known you for maybe a couple of years.
Lori: Yes, ma'am.
Yeah, so I have Chris Thornburg and Lori Crowder, you both work for the same company?
Chris: Yes, we are the founders of our company, CBCT Systems.
Okay. Lori. What is a CBCT system?
L: Actually, that's a better question for Chris. I do the book end.
C: Yeah. If you ask Lori about QuickBooks then I would have to, or you if asked me about quickbooks. I would have to put it over to Lori.
So CBCT stands for Cone Beam Computed Tomography, and it's very similar to regular traditional CT except it's low energy, hard tissue only.
So, cone beam means that it's just the energy that comes outta the tube head is in the shape of a cone instead of a fan like your traditional CT machines. That's what Cone Beam CT is.
So when you're saying low energy, it means low radiation.
C: That's correct.
Right. Okay. Yeah. This podcast, it's about true and tried solutions to suffering. So what would be a benefit for a person to use this technology, say over,I don't know, x-ray or a standard CT scan that they use in hospitals, for instance.
C: Right. That's a great question. That's one we get
L: A lot.
C: We get a lot. You know, cone beam CTs are designed to be, first of all in your practice. They're much smaller machines.
Yeah. And we have one
C: Yeah. Then your standard CT machine in a hospital, which can be very large machines, they're designed to plug into typically your standard one-ten or two-twenty outlet in your practice. They run off of a fairly simple computer system and can be networked in your practice.
So that can be very beneficial, let's say if you're doing surgery or you're having to do a clinical follow up with a patient, right then and there you have that information really close at hand as opposed to sending the patient to an imaging center. Or, a lot of times you have to set that patient up for a visit to an imaging center or a hospital to get that data and that can take some time.
Yeah, and would agree with you. There are people love it. It's like, “oh, how long do I have to wait? Or do I have to go?” “Oh, we can do it right now if you want.”
C: Yeah, the patients hate leaving the practice. They hate having to schedule something outside the practice. It's just not everybody has done it and we just, nobody really particularly likes it, so.
Yeah. And it takes well minutes from - the scan itself only takes a few seconds, but by the time you go back there and put the name in the computer and then measure and things like that. Just five to ten minutes, right?
C:Yeah, exactly. And we get that question a lot as well is, you know, how long does this take? And I say, well, “if you're familiar with the system that you purchased and you're familiar with the computer system and you have a patient patient. Obviously some patients, you know, can take longer to set up correctly in the machine or they're fidgety or not following instructions, but you can, I mean, three to five minutes”. People are shocked. “Like three to five minutes?”
Like now this is not the clinicians time to looking at the scan.
Very important distinction.
C: Very important planning distinction. Yes. With the clinical viewing software and loading the data into that and going through clinically, whatever that clinical modality, you could probably spend an astronomical amount of time.
But the actual scan in dealing with the patient and, you know, in and out of the equipment is three to five minutes. You're absolutely right. It's very, very short.
And you said the clinicians. Really could spend, you said, an astronomical amount of time. That's because you can see everything.
C: That's correct. It's 3-D. It's three dimensions.
So it's essentially exactly like looking at your head and neck, in our case, without your muscles and skin on it, and it's as if you're holding it in your hand and you can turn it around and look from the inside out and the outside in, and top to the bottom and bottom to the top and all of that, right?
C: That is correct, yes. It's a completely three-dimensional image and most clinical viewing software out there will allow you to do exactly what you just said you can also crop part of the anatomy away. So you can look internally in anatomy that that was blocked by other anatomy. And you can do all kinds of things.
Yeah, that's true. So for instance, in our clinic, back when we used to do x-rays, so in the Blair technique there used to be maybe 12 x-rays that need be taken. It's fifteen sometimes even. And then if you were looking at it, maybe you were too high or too low, or you didn't turn the patient just right. Then you had to first develop the X-ray. And then retake it. And that's not the case with the CT. How does that work?
C: So it's a completely digitized format. You're not obviously doing film anymore. That's a computer that reconstructs the image. So as the machine goes around the patient's head, it's pulsed, most cone beam CTs are all pulsed. The energy is not just flowing out a constant. It's a pulse. And every pulse you get data and a computer takes each of those pulses and combines it into a visual image that you see and that you can go through, fly through. You hear a lot about flying through the image 'cause it's in three dimensions.
So yeah, that’s exactly what the clinician can do. Mow, there is can be overload of data from a scan like this. So if a clinician has been trained to look at 2-D X-rays, you can only glean so much data out of a two-dimensional X-ray. But when you get to 3-D, I've had a clinician spend two hours looking at,you know, I've actually had to say, “can we move on?” So, it can be data overload.
I think there's a learning curve and right now we're talking at the Blair Convention and later on in this conference, my husband, Dr. Gordon Elder and Dr. Michael Lenarz are going to teach analysis. So when the doctors have some training to know what to look for, that really helps.
C: Absolutely. And then we only know what we only know as well as a profession. That's why if you look at Atlas of Anatomy books off of 2-D X-Ray, there's only ever like two or three or four editions. If you look at a Atlas of Anatomy book off of a CT. Especially in dental or upper cervical, Well, mainly in dental, there's like15 additions already because the problem is, it's just so much data. It's just, they just keep finding more. Each clinical modality itself finds more to glean from the three-dimensional image, you know, that they use to diagnose and treat patients.
So, yeah, it can be a lot, and I don't wanna over complicate it is also very simple. Most machines are very simple, fairly to operate. They're either standing or sit down. There's plus and minuses to both. And a lot of them, the software and the computers put the data out into the practice on their own. You just simply open up your software and click on the patient. It's fairly simple as far as working with the equipment.
Actually you said, seated or standing, which actually I consider, and I know Upper Cervical doctors actually consider a huge benefit because then you see the structures load-bearing the way Gravity is. The way if we move around in normal life. So a lot of the bigger machines in the hospitals, you lay down yes, but then you don't see how the bones interact with each other, or you will take the curve out. For instance, our necks should have a nice C-shaped curve in it. But if you lay straight, then that changes that relationship because now you have a different force or a pull from gravity.
C: And actually cone beam has gotten into podiatry and there's actually standing, cone beam CT machines so they can actually take a hard tissue image of the bones in the feet and the legs and in a standing, in a weight-bearing position.
Yes. Actually, before I knew anything about CBCT and we had one ourselves, I've actually been on a machine like that. 'cause unfortunately for me, I broke my foot a few years ago.
C: Oh no. I'm sorry to - actually, I think I may have known that actually. I think we…
Did we talk about that?
C: Yes, I think so.
And there is some future technology we've seen what a couple of the manufacturers are coming up with in the next five years or so, and there are some full-body cone-beam CT machines coming out into the marketplace.
Yes, my husband has told me about that. He is very excited about that.
C: But as with any technology, a new technology like that, I would consider that new technology. The price of entry into that is going to not be cheap. We'll put it that way.
Yeah. And actually price of entry. Let's just cover that. I was planning to get to that maybe a little bit later, but that is why we got to know you because it was definitely on our wishlist. We knew we needed a machine. We had just uprooted ourselves and moved from California to Lubbock. We were spending a bunch of money and moving and essentially starting over from scratch, almost at the Blair Clinic. And we just thought it was too expensive until we met you. So you have really a unique situation going.
So what we did before was we partnered with a dental office. And of course we had to inconvenience our patients, like you said, we don't have to do now and schedule them at the dental office. But when we looked at our budget, we saved a bunch of money from day one, when we actually got our own machine, we were paying twice as much in fees to use the dentist's machine.
C: Yes, yes. So, and Lori can chime in on this.
Yeah. Sounds like that's Lori's expertise maybe.
C: Yeah. we actually recommend - so when offices reach out to us about the technology, we feel really important that it's to make sure that the office is making the best decision for them. If there's a lot of options to get your patients, with CBCT by using your dentist or somebody else who has a unit. There's also mobile units in a lot of the major cities. You can actually have a mobile CBCT visit your site, that's very popular in say, Southern California. There's quite a few mobile ones, Chicago your bigger cities. We're out of Atlanta and there's one running around in - actually there's, there's two now.
So you'd schedule the truck or something to come on a Wednesday and you would - Everyone who wanted a CT scan, you'd schedule them on a Wednesday morning or something like that.
C: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly how it works, and it's great to just get started with the technology and start implementing it.
L: Get comfortable with it
C: Yes, exactly. Get comfortable with it. And that's a really good option. We usually talk to potential offices who are interested in saying, “don't forget that this is an option.”
Well, you know, this is a the interesting thing about Conebeam CT, it's a big initial price for entry. You know, we've always been very conservative on making sure offices, first of all, knew that were making a good decision on where they wanted to do it now or later down the road. A cone beam CT.
Like for upper cervical care, you'll want what's called a large field of view unit, and the machines themselves are priced new off of the size of that field of view. The size of the field of view dictated by the sensor or panel size that they put in the units. The more expensive machines have the larger panel slash sensor.
So what you're saying essentially is if you're an Upper Cervical doctor, you need to see more. That's if you're just looking at the teeth.
C: That's correct. That's correct. And you can buy a cone beam CT that has a very small field of view, you know, like four by five centimeter field of view. And that's - a dentist would use that to do cross sections, to do look at, you know, for endodontics, look at certain teeth. To put onesie or twosie implants in, something like that. But that's field of view is very, very small and would almost be useless for an Upper Cervical clinician who's trying to look at, you know, yeah. From the auditory meatus down to C-seven, trying to consistently.
So I'm not sure our listeners know what the auditory meatus is, but at our clinic we have a system so we can see from the tops of the shoulders. Because there's the machine goes, rotates around your head and because your shoulders are wide. It can only go down to the tops of the shoulders so we don't bump you and to the top of the head.
C: Yes, that's correct. So the machines that we're talking about are designed for head and neck only, so they have a certain restriction, limitation on the patient's anatomy. The machines are typically, you cannot get them past the shoulders. And so if the patient shows up in your practice, it's typically the patient that's Monday morning with the really high shoulders, the grumpy attitude and just, you're like, well, I've gotta take an image.
Oh, we don't have any grumpy attitudes.
C: And sometimes they can be difficult to get down far enough, but that is inherent with the technology hole. All the machines are designed. Remember, this is low energy, so the distance between the tube head transcranial through the patient to the sensor has to be a certain distance. You just can't make it, you know, 10 feet apart and fit anything in it. So to keep that low energy profile those dimensions are pretty much set. And that's why you see all the machines on the marketplace look fairly similar, at least the part that rotates around the head.
Yeah. So all of this is very technical stuff. So Chris, how did you get into this? Did you go to like kindergarten and say, “I wanna learn, you know, CBCT technology?”
C: Well, my own personal story, Lori has a different story.
Yeah, she's next.
C: My own personal story is I've always had a mechanical background. I went to college for business. I worked in the car industry for several years and always turned wrenches and I had a fairly bubbly personality. I could do some sales as well. And a friend of mine got hired as a graphic designer for a small company that sold 2-D tomographic equipment to in the dental field.
So 2-D Tomo is 2-D slice instead of 3-D or CT. So these were just 2-D machines, that we used film.
And when I showed up for the interview, the owner of the company, his name was Dick Green, and a few of your people actually might know who that is. He's, in a small way, he is a legend in this whole head and neck imaging arena. I just managed to luck out. His company was in the town that I lived in, and I went in for an interview and he says, “well, I've got bad news for you.” I was like, “Oh, what's that, sir?” He said, “you're hired”. And then he put everybody through an anatomy course straight away. Talk about feeling way over my head instantly.That was it. And we had to get used to the technology.
So a human body machine is different than a car Machine?
C: As far as turning wrenches once you get used to the systems? No. The computer side can be a little bit of a headache. Some of these machines are fairly complicated on the back end with the computers, but it's still, you know, the mechanical side is still fairly simple.
And I've been doing this for twenty-one years now. And then of course Lori has a different story about being in business.
So how did you get into being interested in CBCT technology?
L: It was about seven years ago. I was in sales. I always do business. I know how to run a business. Chris was on a little vacation from his job and I had just opened a spa that I wanted to get away from, and Chris looked at me one day and said, “how about we open a business?” And I said, “um, I know nothing about CBCT.” He said, “that's okay. I know everything about CBCT. You know how to run a business,” so the rest is history, and here we are. We both kind of jumped in with both feet and it worked.
So how does it work for, if a new doctor wants to work with you? Do they call Chris or do they call Lori?
L: It depends on, do they wanna know about the CT first? Do they wanna know how it works, or do they wanna know if they can get financed right away? I work with them doing the financing. Anything to do with that I'll hold their hand, I'll help 'em, I'll try my best to get 'em financed. Now they probably do wanna know about the CT first, so I would have them talk to Chris's as well.
Yeah great.
C: I know this sounds cliche, but we try and do the right thing. You know, when people call us, and especially when they talk to me and they say, “I want cone beam.” I usually say, “why? Why do you want this? What are you doing with this?” “Oh, I heard Joe Smoe down the street has one.” That's not good enough answer. “Why do you want this?” “Well I was at a continued education course and, or, I wanna do dental implants, or, I really wanna expand my upper cervical practice.” Or you listen to clues of what that person is telling you. You know, “I was using a mobile truck and now it's just getting to be a pain to use” Those are all clues to say, “Hey, this might be a clinician or an office that really could use this technology and really benefit from it a lot,” instead of just trying to sell units or put units in just anywhere and everywhere.
So when you were talking to our clinic and you found out that we're struggling with getting patients scheduled across town and sometimes they have to retake the picture. 'cause it's not the way that Dr. Elder has trained them.And we're spending this massive chunk of money to do it. You're going, “okay. I can help you there. You'll be better off getting your own machine.”
C: Absolutely.
And we were like, from day one, we got better pictures for a cheaper price from month one.
But that's not always the case, is what you're saying?
C: Oh, no, no. We get a lot of calls. I mean, you know, a lot of people have interest and we get a lot of calls and a lot of 'em are, you know, they want, I mean, we treat every call serious, but a lot of offices,need to think about this for, you know, a longer period of time or, you know, they're not…
L: It is a big investment.
C: It's a big initial investment, especially for upper cervical offices. Maybe not as much for the dental community,
Why is that? Are they using cheaper machines?
C: No. Their practices annual incomes, I would say are, are more than what an upper cervical office would be. They also have a, I would say, a more rigid billing structure for the units as well.
Okay. That is true. It's much cheaper to see a chiropractor than an oral surgeon. I know that from personal experience.
C: Yes. There is a different in economies of scale. So we try and be very cognizant of that. That is very, very important. If you wanna get a new technology into, a field, you have to be very aware of what the economies of scale are. And also you're, you know, if an office, a clinician is calling us, they're putting their trust in our answers, we're gonna do our best not to lead them as astray in regards to, you know, pricing and what they can expect from that and what each individual machine will do. 'Cause we still do quite a bit of consulting for a lot of other machines as well. We happen to only carry one brand. So we're very aware of the marketplace and try and help clinicians make the best decision for their practice.
Okay. And so what I actually wanted to talk about is how you work, or, and I'll use our clinic as an example. So my husband always recommends you and talks about you and in the upper cervical world, there's a few different companies, maybe two or three companies that doctors typically go with, and he said, “I would go with Chris any day because of the incredible customer service” You drove a truck yourself and came to our clinic and you're based in Atlanta, is that correct?
C: That's right, yes.
And we're in Lubbock, Texas, and it's not a short drive. And you drove it out there and plugged it in and you asked us to line up some people so that you could train it. And we gave some people, you know, half price so that they could come on that day. Yes, they could come on our terms instead of their terms. And so we had a bunch of people come and you've been out a few times because something needed to be done with the machine. And then other times if there's been an issue, we call you up. And you ca get into it from afar, I guess, and fix it. Or you can figure out what the problem is and tell the doctor what's going on. And anytime there's a problem, Gordon just calls you up and you are there. I don't know how you do that. It's the more doctors you have, you're still just as available. It's a superpower.
L: It really is a superpower.
C: Yeah. Well, we appreciate it, but the login technology that we have these days, we can, you know, from one computer terminal login on the machine. And this is nothing new. I mean, every manufacturer in any IT department can do this, but you know, you can do a lot of problem solving very quickly and very efficiently and not waste a whole bunch of time with sending technicians and doing all of this and you can isolate problems fairly quickly, I would say it's, it's amazing. I mean, when I first started in this, you had to put boots on the ground to go do anything. So it's, it's amazing how fast you can isolate an issue, you know, whether it's a machine or the computer or something like that. You know, with our machines, Our machines that we sell, we're constantly upgrading them. So a couple of our trips out to y'all's office was to upgrade the unit. We got it off of its original computer system and upgraded it to a Windows 11 system. So we're constantly working on our machines to make sure that they're as updated as, as you know, we can get 'em and we can keep 'em.
Okay. So this is an all audio podcast. So I'll just a link to a place where they can look at some pictures and see what the machines looks like. See what the pictures look like. We have a YouTube video on our clinic that shows what the doctors are looking at. So I'll link to that and things like that. So that if you're listening to this and you want to see what it looks like, go in the show notes. So, I would like to switch gears a little bit. So you are not doctors, neither one of you are doctors.
L: No, ma'am.
But, I have seen you at these conferences. I know that some of your best friends now are some of the smartest doctors around. So Lori, I'll put you on the spot because, I'm like that, that's my job. What is something that you have learned from working with some of these doctors that you're seeing here this weekend?
L: Honestly for me it's how much they wanna help people. Their practices are all geared towards really making the patient understand that what they're doing is going to help them in the long run. And I know I've had some problems in my past. It's just nice when you get a clinician that actually wants to help and have a wonderful outcome.
All the doctors that I know that are here at the Blair Uppercervical Convention, they care…
L: So much.
So much.
L: And they're honestly, some of the smartest people seriously I've ever come in contact with and not being a doctor, they never talk down. They…
Respect you.
L: Absolutely. Respect, yes. And that means a lot to me.
Yeah, I see that. The head and the heart working together.
L: Oh, amazing. Isn't it?
Yeah. That's a beautiful way to put it. Thank you for sharing that. It's profound and I think you nailed it on the head. I see the same thing.
L: Yeah. They're just wonderful clinicians that wanna help the world.
C: It's that time commitment that's so important, you know?
In what way?
C: Well, you know, when you go to the medical community, the clinicians almost are limited to the time they can spend with you. With head and neck and a lot of oral craniofacial pain, dentist and upper cervical clinicians. It's the time they spend with the patients. And what I see when I see patients come into offices that I'm in. It's so refreshing to see that.
If I can inject a story. We have a customer, it's an oral maxillofacial surgery practice, so it's not upper cervical chiro.
That's great.
C: I won't mention any names, but I was behind their main entrance way where their counters were and check-in and everything like that. They have, one of our machines, and I never noticed this before, but they had a sign that was above - the patients couldn't see 'cause they were on the wrong side of the desk, and it said, no more than eight minutes spend with every patient. And that's the first time I had seen any signage like that in any office that I'd ever been in twenty-one years.
Okay, we don't have a sign like that.
C: I think I managed to take a picture of it. I sent it to Lori. I sent it to, we have a couple IT people I sent. I was just a little floored that I'd never seen distinct signage about how much time they could spend with a patient.
No crisis allowed today.
L: Nope. Never.
C: And I'm always been curious of where they came up with eight minutes at some algorithm tell ‘em that? I'm not sure, but yeah.
L: Chat GPT.
C: Yeah. AI that's coming.
What is something that you wish everybody would understand?
About Cone Beam CT? I guess, well that's probably at the moment for me, I would think is that these units can be complicated. They're very computer-driven. It takes a lot to provide good support for these units further down the road. But I mean, we do a lot to make sure that we stay ahead of all the computer systems because eventually, you know, a computer system is gonna be rendered obsolete. You gotta stay ahead of that. You gotta stay ahead of networking systems. Another story, we just had a customer recently change their internet provider, well, it changed every IP address in the office and nothing would work. We spent two hours logged in on the phone, me and Ali trying to fix the whole system, and that was just an internet change provider. I was like, “can I send the internet provider a bill?” I mean, it was just ridiculous. But,it can be a lot of legwork for a company who provides these systems, who's interested in very long-term support. You have to stay ahead of all of this. And you know, some machines, parts availability can get limited. You have to stay ahead of that as well, you know.
So what is your process for staying ahead of those issues?
Well, we have some great vendor partners on the computer side who do a great job for us. for the computer side to do a wonderful job. And they were integral in this whole computer upgrade that we just did for our machines recently. So that's one thing.
Staying up on parts. What parts are generally commercially available out on the marketplace. A lot of the computer, the internal parts of the machines, like power supplies and things like that are commercially available. You can just buy them. So we make sure that we're stocked up on those. We try and make sure we try and check to see if those manufacturers, or make sure they're not gonna delete those parts anytime soon. Like a 24 volt power supply. All these machines, the motors run off of a 24 volt power supply. So, you know, you wanna make sure that that manufacturer with that particular part that fits that machine is gonna stay around. So, you know, there's a lot of legwork to that. And then also as the machine gets older. It may start having issues with components that you just didn't think of. So, you know, when there is a small group of people in the cone beam CT world that talk quite a bit and, you know, let other people know, Hey, this particular machine is having this issue now we found a fix, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sothere's a small group of us,and we try and keep ahead of that. Not saying on every machine out there, there's a lot of machines from South Korea and the Asian marketplace and they all seem to be good machines, but you know, the support and the parts side of it. We don't know a whole lot about those machines, so that's a little easier.
You can't just call 'em up at a moment's notice and have them say,”okay, I'll be there tomorrow and fix it.”
C: Yeah. Some you can, some you can't.
L: You definitely don't have their cell phone number like you do with us.
Yeah, that's right. That's true. That's very true.
Yeah. That's the thing with us. When you call for support, you're getting a person, you're getting
L: A person.
C: You're literally calling our cell phones. It's either me or Ollie's or Tracy's. And then if you can't get ahold of us, you're calling Lori's and it's a direct -we have no answering
L: Service. We're the service for our company.
C: There’s no your call is important to us. Your hold time is one hour and 10 minutes, you know? It's a very direct and we don't plan on changing that 'cause that's very important to us.
Yeah. So, Lori, you said you wanted to be more in the background in this interview, but I know that it's the quiet ones that have the most profound things to say. So what is one thing that you, just, to a normal person listening to this, what is something that you wish they would know?
L: Can I tout my business partner?
You can say whatever you want. I'm leaving it open.
L: I wanna tout him because a lot of times in this field. These machines are taken out of, first of all, we do refurbished machines. So a lot of times they're just taken outta one practice brought and put into another practice and support and all of that is not even thought about. Whereas Chris actually brings the machine
C: Back to our shop. Every machine comes back to our shop
L: And completely goes through that machine. Top to bottom.
I believe that.
L: So like he was saying, we're trying to stay ahead of the game. What I want people to know is that you are going to be taken care of with us. Because the machine already is top-notch when it leaves our shop, because of him.
Yeah, it's top-notch. And if for some reason something happens. You come out and take care of it.
L: Absolutely.
C: Well, I appreciate that. The one reason why we're excited about the machine that we carry. And I guess we can state the company. So we carry the iCat Next-Gen slash Flex platform. The reason that we're excited about that and passionate about that unit is, is that it's a unit that we feel we can keep running for 15, 20 years. There's a lot of machines in the North American market. There's a huge support structure. There's lots of parts. I mean, it's just a really machine that we feel that we can really get behind and really offer some long-term support for a refurbished initial price, which is roughly half the price of what a new one is.
Yeah. And that's what helped us make our decision too, because it was more affordable because it was refurbished. And yet with your help, we'll have a good machine way after we're done making the payments.
L: Absolutely.
C: Yeah. It's interesting, you know, there's a couple of manufacturers, the one that builds the iCat, Imaging Sciences is one of them. Plan Mecca is another one, and there's a few others, and they were heavily interested in just making that same platform better and better and better, although most of the manufacturers seem to just swap, just have a complete redesign, some seemingly every three months, but annoyingly. But every couple of years it's another machine that's slightly different than the previous one, enough to be non-compatible with parts and stuff like that. And I've never been a big fan of that. Always been a big fan of like
Longevity.
C: Longevity, like perfect examples like what Porsche has done with the nine 11. That car has been around since the sixties and they just keep making it better, and they do some design stylings and stuff. I've always been very appreciative of that as opposed to just coming out with some other model that's been developed because of some demographic study, you know, every two years. It just gets overwhelming from a support end. It gets to be a nightmare. Because, you know, within six years you got three different machines with three different systems running and it's just hard to keep up with.
So you're the opposite of that.
C: I'm not saying that those aren't good machines. I'm just saying for us, if a customer buys a machine from us, they're looking at us as a tech and support partner, and we need every advantage that we can to make sure that we can provide that. And that's one way is staying with the same platform.
So, when you take care of your customers, being doctors, they can rely on this technology to be working. The bottom line is the doctor is freed up to help more people more of the time.
C: That is correct. I would say that.
L: Absolutely.
C Lori said this several years ago. She's like, “we've gotta be the most patient, clinician-focused small hardware company out there.” And at least in head and neck, I was like, I'd love to think we are. That's probably being a bit braggadocious, but if you focus on the clinician and you focus on the patient, then you know, I think you'll have a great outcome and pretty good service.
So you are the behind-the-scenes support. For doctors so that they can help more people with head and neck injuries.
C: Yes. I guess we are behind-the-scenes.
So our patients who come to us with head and neck injuries, they come to see a head and neck expert and you make what he does possible. So you're part of our team. You make it possible for us to do a better job for our patients.
C: I like that. I like that phrase you just said, part of the team, because I've always told clinicians that work with us that this is a long-term relationship. You know, we're gonna be around for about 15 years.
L: Whether You like it or not.
C: I hope you still like us because you're stuck with us. And that's what happens when you buy one of these machines or you buy any big capital equipment purchase for your practice, you're kind of stuck with it. They're difficult to get out of. So you wanna make the best decision that you can for your practice, you know?
Sounds good. Well, I really appreciate your time. And I know the session downstairs is at a break and that's when the doctors wanna talk to you. So I'm going to release you to go and do your job, and thank you for taking time to talk to me and my listeners.
C: No, thank you for having us. Thank you for being interested in our passion. Yes. Yeah,
L: We appreciate it.