EPISODE SUMMARY
Guest: Dr. Luca O'Brien
Luca O’Brien is a newly graduated Doctor of Chiropractic, a rising star in the Upper Cervical Profession. His passion is to share a message of light: Throughout his young life, he has had a fire to apply himself and go over and beyond. He is a familiar face at conferences and social media. He has learned as much or more through attending specialty conferences as he has in school. He decided he wanted to be an Upper Cervical Doctor after an Upper Cervical adjustment healed his severe insomnia.
In this episode, he covers:
The profound effect of growing up with a parent suffering from severe mental illness.
Using suffering to do good: "Turn your mess into your message and your pain into purpose.
Passion comes from truly understanding suffering.
The importance of sleep on our mental and physical health. How the neck influences sleep.
How mental and physical health is connected.
MRI studies show changes in the brain after a concussion and before and after an Upper Cervical adjustment. Treatment of the craniocervical junction is the future of mental health treatment.
Every person has a light, an energy inside us. What it means to express that light vs. suppressing it.
Dr. Luca O'Brien on social media:
Upper Cervical Council
For more information on Suicide Prevention:
What is The Diplomate of Chiropractic Craniocervical Junction?
https://www.icauppercervical.com/diplomate-program/
To contact Ruth, go to https://www.blairclinic.com
ruth@blairclinic.com
https://www.facebook.com/rutelin
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome, welcome, welcome to What Pain in the Neck. I am Ruth Elder, your host, and in this podcast episode, I am so excited to introduce one of the newest doctors of chiropractic. Not only that but the newest Blair Upper Cervical doctor. Welcome to Dr. Luca O'Brien.
Thank you so much Ruth. It's really a pleasure to be here and to be able to be on your podcast. I really enjoy the conversations that you're having And I think it's really important for people to be able to hear these discussions.
Yeah and Mutual Admiration Society. I love the stuff that you're doing. So we are recording this on the last day of September in 2023. And how long have you been a doctor officially?
I have officially been a doctor for about a week.
Incredible.
I graduated last Friday, and it's just an absolute whirlwind. You know, it's just such a pleasure to be in this profession.
Yeah, and it's a long time ago now, but I helped my husband get through chiropractic school, and it's a lot of work. It's a lot, a lot of work, right?
Yeah, it is. It's a marathon, not a sprint, for sure.
Yes, it's a marathon of a lot. And then, to add to that, you've gone over and beyond. I mean, it would be a lot to focus on your caseload and pass your tests and do your school work. But you haven't stopped there, have you?
No, I think that one of the biggest things that I've understood is that you learn more outside of the classroom than you do inside the classroom. And I think for me, a quote that my mom told me early on in my life was, “A child educated only at school is an uneducated child.” And for me, I really took that to heart as, you know, your school, your classroom is just kind of the minimum. That's the absolute minimum that you need. But if you want to be able to really be proficient, if you really want to be successful, start having the conversations with people that are doing what you want to do and making what you want to make. And for me, I feel very blessed and honored to be able to go to over 42 chiropractic conferences and seminars during my time at school and just being able to network and being able to get connected with these doctors and hear all the amazing things that they're doing.
Yeah. So you're out of school for one week. And you're already - like everybody in the profession knows you, that really is incredible.
Well, you know, I think it's just you show up enough times and you know, either people are going to swat you away or they're going to bring you in. And I think that's just one of the things is I've been very honored and blessed to be able to meet some amazing doctors and for them to be able to take a chance on me and to believe in me. And I think that that's the biggest thing that I'm grateful for is to be able to have mentors that Are willing to help me. And I think that that's how you really grow.
It's an incredible, great circle. You're extending yourself. You're putting yourself out there. You're going out and doing the things that need doing and that gets noticed. And so then it's easy to come and be part of your team and mentoring and things like that, because you're proving that you're the real deal by doing what you do. It's not just hot air.
Well, I appreciate it. Hopefully, I'm not blowing any hot air up anyone's anything. But for me, I think one quote that really stands out is from our profession, and I believe it's D.D. Palmer talking about the oak tree and the acorn. Like when we start chiropractic school, we're these tiny acorns and we're looking up at these massive oak trees in front of us. These doctors like Tom Forest have been practicing for almost 50 years and we're like, “how are we ever going to turn into this mighty oak tree?” But you know, every single day you get water, you get sunshine, you get nourished, especially being surrounded by these mighty oak trees. And then before you know it, you graduate. You're this little baby sapling and you're like, “all right, I'm starting to grow up. I'm starting to, you know, find my roots and be able to grow.” And I think that's the biggest thing that resonates with me is that we have these mighty oak trees in our profession and they're really here to help. And I think that the Blair Society does a really good job of being able to mentor that next generation to be able to be successful.
Yeah. Yeah, that is good. And we just found out this weekend that there's 240 student members. In the Blair Society, and that gives me so much hope. I've told the story many times of how I was an invalid and nobody could figure out what was wrong with me until I saw a Blair doctor who specialized in the upper neck and could see something wrong with the structure in my neck that other doctors weren't able to find. But at that time, I had to wait 22 years before I could get someone to understand that.to a doctor that would do that. Had to move all the way from Norway to California and at that time at the very outset optimistically there were 50 blair doctors in the whole world. So to know that there's 240 Students that's not counting the doctors, that's a lot of progress in uh - Okay, I'm dating myself, 29 years. So that is really encouraging. And especially to see people going over and beyond from day one is really incredible. So I just want to thank you for that. You mentioned that you grabbed a hold of something your mother told you. What was your journey of even deciding to go into chiropractic? Is it in your family? Have you found the same kind of support deciding to go into chiropractic as you found after you went to school? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah, and I think that it really goes to the testimony of turning your pain into purpose and turning your mess into your message. And I think for me, the reason why I got into chiropractic was really the accumulation of my life story.
So can you sum that up for us?
Yeah, without going into too much depth. My family, you know, my mom is from Europe. She's from Sicily. My dad is from America. They met, they had my sister, they had me, they came to the U.S. And there were definitely a lot of struggles that we had there as a family. And I think one of those struggles was my father and his mental health. And for him, you know, he was dealing with this sickness and the thing about mental health is that someone can be really unhealthy mentally but physically they look fine. And I think that's one of the greatest like diseases that’s out there is that people that are suffering with mental health issues that they may look normal. They may look fine, but inside, you know, they're have this darkness. They have this depression.
Yeah, and it makes a profound impact on you as a child, too, with a parent like that, I would imagine.
Yeah, and so it came to the point where there were just so many disagreements, there were so many arguments, you know, between my mom and my father, that, he didn't have a reason to live anymore, and so he took his own life.
Oh no.
And so for me, I was just understanding. Like, I was about seven years old. I'm trying to understand what's going on in my family.I'm trying to understand what just happened to my father. And I think it really sparked interest inside of me of, how could someone be in so much darkness? That they would want to be able to take their own life. And for me, it really started a lifelong path of understanding human behavior and psychology. And so for me, I was always interested in psychology. I wanted to learn more about how people think so that I could be able to help future people so they didn't have to live in that darkness. Because I saw firsthand how it was to see my father living in that darkness. And then even for me growing up, I was dealing with depression. I was dealing with suicide. I was dealing with all these things because my best friend, my father was gone. He had taken his life. And so for me,
And he set kind of an example.
Yeah, exactly.
I actually recently did an episode on suicide prevention. And we learned that one of the risk factors of committing suicide is having a family member that have done that.
Exactly. And I knew that that wasn't the road that I wanted to go down.
So this is where when you say to take a mess and turn it into a message. That really runs deep in you.
It does. And I think that's why I have so much passion is because I understand what it feels like to have a family member that is truly suffering. And you can't even see that they're suffering because it's all inside. And what an impact that made on our family, on me, and you know, how I was starting to deal with a lot of those issues as well. And it wasn't until I really started to understand psychology and human behavior. And then eventually chiropractic that I understood kind of the greater message of health.
Okay, so what does all of that really have to do with chiropractic? I think everybody knows that when you're dealing with mental health, it has something to do with psychology. But how does chiropractic fit into that?
Well, I think for me, one of the things that I started to realize was getting under Upper Cervical care myself. You know, for me, I had been seeing a general chiropractor that just kind of had a general analysis that he would do, and I never really experienced any long lasting results. It was more of kind of like temporary relief, and there's nothing against him. He's a great guy. He's the reason why I got into chiropractic, but I was looking for something a little bit more specialized. I was looking for something with a little bit higher level of analysis and I just think for me I had a lot of questions, but I had a lot of faith coming into chiropractic school. And so it wasn't until I received my first Upper Cervical adjustment that everything started to change and for me my best friend in school Granger Brown. Shout out Dr. Granger Brown. He had been dealing with migraines for the majority of his life and his brother was actually in the program about two years ahead of us. And he was like, “hey, you should go see the student doctor in clinic that does Upper Cervical. It gets great results with people suffering from migraines” and he was like, “okay I'll go see her” and then every time we would hang out or study he's like, “man, I just feel so clear.I see so great. Like my migraines are subsiding and they're staying subsided.” And that hadn't happened to him before with the other chiropractic care that he had received. And I was like, “what is the specialty of Upper Cervical care? I want to learn more about it.” Like I have this background in psychology, neuroscience, mental health, like how is this thing existed, but I didn't know about it. And so for me, I'm like hearing all this stuff, he's talking about how great it is. I'm like, “All right, I got to try it myself.” So I go see her, I get an Upper Cervical adjustment, and it was toggle technique at the time. And I remember it was just so light. I was like, because I had traditional chiropractic care before, and I was like, “nothing happened.” I can - almost everyone can attest to that after receiving an Upper Cervical adjustment.
That's the most common reaction. It's like. “You didn't do anything.”
And yeah, exactly. And so I remember going home that day and I'm like, maybe I feel a little bit different, maybe it's placebo. I have no clue. And then I remember it was like a movie. I went to sleep. I fell asleep on my back. And I woke up and it almost felt immediately like a second had passed. But then when I looked at my watch, about 12 hours had gone by. And for me, the biggest issue that I was dealing with that I didn't even know was an issue to even talk about with this student doctor was that I had trouble sleeping for, like, 6-7 years of my life. Like, in the beginning of high school, I always would be like, sleeping on my stomach, I would have to turn my head, side to side, it would take me like an hour to fall asleep, I would be tossing and turning throughout the night, I would wake up tired, I would need a drink of coffee. And then at night, I would need to take melatonin to be able to help me fall asleep. And that was just kind of my life for a long time. And I just thought it was normal. I just got used to it. And then literally, I got the best sleep of my life after correcting this one bone in my neck? I was like, “what?”
That’s actually the first thing that happened to me too, when I had my first adjustment. I slept through the night. For me it was the first time ever in my whole life I'd slept through an entire night.
Yeah for me too.
Sleeping is so important for our health.
Yeah talking about mental health, right?
Well mental and physical health. Although the two really do go closely together, right?
They really are hand in hand. And so for me, I was like, wow I just feel amazing I feel bright. I feel energetic. And it kind of like hit that light bulb in me. I'm like, “wow, this is a really great approach to be able to help people that are dealing with mental health” and especially talking to more Upper Cervical chiropractors and hearing how some of their patients were dealing with these severe mental health issues and all these different things and how they were able to get an Upper Cervical alignment and their entire lives changed. You know, there's this book called What Time Tuesday and it talks about someone that was just suffering with so much pain that he didn't want to live anymore and he was planning his suicide on Tuesday and it wasn't until his wife brought him into an Upper Cervical chiropractor that that trigeminal neuralgia that he was just suffering with so much finally subsided and went away.
He had set a time on Tuesday afternoon because his wife was never leaving him alone and she had to run one of their kids to, I think, soccer practice or something like that. So that's the time he had set. But that morning she drove him to an Upper Cervical doctor and he felt some relief and so he didn't go through with it.
Exactly.
Incredible, right?
And I think that is just such a powerful story.
Yeah. What Time Tuesday is actually out of print, but at the Blair Clinic I do have a few copies, so if you really want to read that book, contact me.
Yeah. That's a great book. I would highly recommend it for anyone that is interested in hearing. A true miracle story. And so for me, I'm learning about all of this. I had my personal experience that was really wild. And then I remember we had a Upper Cervical club, Tuesday night talk, where we had a zoom call with an Upper Cervical chiropractor and he was showing us.Pre and post MRIs.
Yeah, so before and after.
Yeah, before and after of one of his patients that had been in the NFL, that had like post concussion syndrome, the whole nine yards and was becoming like very violent and angry with his family. And they had no hope, but they heard about this guy and they took him there. And so you could see the pre, like his brain just looks completely like foggy and clogged up. And then afterwards, just after one Upper Cervical adjustment, you could just see like a 40 percent reduction in just everything that was stuck in there. And for me, like it finally clicked. I was like, I had this wild personal experience, and then I'm able to see what's happening in someone's brain. And so it really just clicked to me. And I was like, “wow, this is really the future of mental health.” This is really being able to get people in alignment so that their brain can be able to function properly. And the more that I learned and the more that I developed, the really I'm seeing that there's so much passing through this area, through this craniocervical junction, and to be able to maintain the integrity of this Craniocervical junction is a vital aspect for life.
Yeah, the Craniocervical junction, that's the part of your body where the head and neck come together.
Yes. Correct.
Not everybody have, you know, just spent, the last four years going to 42 conferences and done school every day in this topic.
Thank you for clarifying that.
Yes. That happens when you become a doctor.
Well, I'm glad that you're able to clarify that for me.
Okay. Yeah. So a few, maybe three years ago I was at one of these conferences and when I walked into the room, you were sitting on the front row. Ready to go. Before the class and every session. You were there with your notebook before the session started and sat through all of it.And then the next conference, you were there on the front row with your notes. And then, you know, it was multiple things. And even this weekend, not only are you here attending the conference. But you're actually working one of the tables.
Yeah, that's true. So I think that's one of the things that I'm really grateful for the opportunity. You know, thank you so much to the ICA. Thank you so much to the Council on Upper Cervical Care for everyone.
ICA is the?
International Chiropractic Association. And so they have a special council on Upper Cervical care. Yeah. And I've been very grateful to be able to attend their forum. Every year for the past three years.
Yes. I've seen you there. On the front row with your notebook showing up early and staying through the whole thing.
Yeah, I mean, that's where I learned the most and I'm just really grateful for those opportunities. And yeah for me, I was really learning about all of the different committees and all the people involved And I remember having a discussion with Dr. Jamie Browning, and she was like, “Oh, I love your videos, like you're running on the beach, and you're talking about chiropractic, you're talking about health, and you would be a great person to be on the public relations committee.” And I was like, “a great person? I'm either on the committee or I'm not on the committee, right?” I was like, “you have the power, you're the president.” And she was like, “We'll see.” And so I was like, okay, well, let me give them a reason to be able to put me on the council and to be able to show the value and the worth that I provide
So you were making all those videos.
So the next day, what do I do best? I love talking to people.I love interviewing people. And so I got all the different diplomates, especially the people that are the chairs of their committees, and just asking them, “what are you grateful for In the Craniocervical junction? What are you grateful for about the Upper Cervical council?” and being able to explain the different committees, what the actual council does, and, you know, it's involved in politics, involved in research, and public relations in the community, and so being able to get that out there. I thought was a really important thing to do, especially because over 40 percent of Americans today get their health care information from social media. And so what message are we putting out there? If we're not even on social media and having these conversations, then people don't even know about it. So it's really important to make sure at least we're putting ourselves out there, so at least we have the exposure. And after that, you know, I think Dr. Browning and the different people on the council were like, “that's great, start doing that. Like, can you help us with the social media?” And I just said, “that's what I can do. You know, I have a lot of time. You guys don't have a lot of time, right? Let me use my time to be able to help you build this social media, the Instagram, the Facebook, the TikTok, the YouTube shorts. Yeah, so we can be able to blast all of this amazing work that the council is doing on social media and for people to find out more about what's going on.”
Yeah, excellent. So again, I think it's really neat how you just started doing it and then people notice. It's the real deal. So I think a lot of times people go, “okay, well, I want to be a leader.” So you apply for leadership positions. No, it's backwards. You show up and you do the work and then that's how it happens. So you've, you're out of school for one week. And you've done all this work that's over and beyond. Do you mind asking me asking how old you are?
I'm 26 years old.
Okay. That's what I thought. You were like, You could be my kid. I have a 26 year old. So what's next for you?
Yeah, so I am going to be traveling for the next month in the US And I think that's one of the things that I understood in school is being able to have great mentors that you can talk to, that you can meet with and being able to visit different clinics of people that are doing what you want to do. And so I'm gonna be doing a tour. This is actually kind of the first stop on my tour, actually it was in Utah. So I'm going to be going to California. I'm going to be going to the Orthospinology Conference to be able to do social media work for the Public Relations Committee for the Upper Cervical Council. I'm going to be going to Dynamic Essentials to be representing the ICA and the Upper Cervical Council. So for this next month, I'm really going to be doing a lot of traveling, networking, talking to a lot of people and sharing the big idea that I have going moving forward.
Great. There's actually one other thing that I want to ask you about in your habit. So clearly you're putting in the work, but you're also, after my own heart, working out, taking care of yourself in that way. And I see some passion there too. So how do you see that fitting in with chiropractic? So one of the things I personally love about Upper Cervical care is you don't actually have to do those things for it to work. So when I first started Upper Cervical care, I was super sick. There's no way I could exercise because I would hurt myself. And so really Upper Cervical chiropractic works. You just have to show up to your appointment and the doctor does the work and you don't have to do anything else. But you have this healthy lifestyle, you know, not only to have I seen you on the front row of the conferences, but I see you in the gym before that.
Well, I think it's just about being a healthy healthcare provider. And I think that so often we forget that in order to provide health and healthcare for another person, us ourselves first have to be healthy. If we can't even take care of our own health, how can I be trusted to take care of someone else's health? And I think people feel this. You know, people understand or they see you or they're inspired or they look up to you when you're a healthy person yourself. And I think health is physical, mental, and spiritual. So what you want to be able to do to be able to build a routine so that you're making sure that you're being your healthiest self physically, mentally, and spiritually. And I think when you do that, you really do have a high capacity to be able to help people and people feel that, right? You don't want to go to someone that themselves they're unhealthy and they're telling you what to do for your health. There's just kind of like that incongruency or like that hypocrisy. And I think that's one thing that I never want to be. I never want to be a hypocrite, because it just doesn't feel authentic. I think the more authentic that you are, the more that your patients feel that, the more that they can relate to you, and the more that they trust you. And one of the things that I learned, as a healthcare studies major with a focus in psychology, was that one of the greatest predictors of health outcomes was actually not the experience or not the intervention of the doctor. It was actually how much that patient trusted their doctor. And if you think about it in the Upper Cervical world, the people that have just absolute trust with their doctor and just absolutely know that they have their best interests at heart, they're likely to follow the recommendations. They're likely to continue with care. They're likely to really get the full impact, the full results that they're looking for.
Yeah, that's true. So you're 26 and I would say you're a leader within your generation, but we do know you've mentioned mental health issues. It's probably your generation, it's really -, and maybe kids that are slightly younger than you, from teens and 20s. We do know that it's, there's record high anxiety, depression. We learned in one of the sessions yesterday that a high percentage already have written their suicide notes and have a plan and that really breaks my heart. So, Dr. O'Brien, if someone's listening, a young person that’s right there right now. What would you like to say to them?
Well, I think that my personal message is really about living in lux. And living in lux, right, we talk about a subluxation. Living sub is below, lux is light, ation is condition, right? It's when someone is living below their light. And I think living in lux for me personally means that you're living in the light and I have seen firsthand what it's like to see my own father living in complete darkness, forgetting about his own light. I've even lived in darkness in my life and forgot about my light. So I think the most important thing is to focus on the light inside of you. We all have this light. Some of us, it's brighter than others, but you know, when you see someone that is just full of energy. They're full of light. They're expressing themselves.
Well, that's you.
Well, it took me a long time, and I think that you appreciate the sunny days because you know what the really dark nights looked like. And for me, I appreciate and I have so much gratitude for the point that I am in my life now, because I've been in some very dark places before and I don't want to go back there. And I had to be able to grow out of that and to focus on my light. An analogy I love to use is if you think about your mind as a garden, right? And you have weeds and you have flowers. And your attention is the sunshine and the water, right? Do you want to be growing those positive thoughts, those flowers, or those negative thoughts, those weeds? And your time and your focus and your attention are that sunshine, are that water. So the more that you're focusing on the negativity in your life, the more that you're growing those weeds in your garden. The more that you focus on the positivity in your life, the more that you're going to grow those flowers. And if you just keep focusing on the flowers, keep focusing on the positivity, it's going to grow and grow and grow. And eventually you're going to get to the point where you're looking around your garden, and you're like, “I don't see any more weeds” because I didn't give them the focus, I didn't give them the attention, I focused on the positive. You know, we attract what we are, ourselves, so if you focus on being a happy, healthy person yourself, guess what? You're going to attract healthy, happy people around you. If you go around smiling, do you think you're going to attract people that also smile? Just maybe 1 percent more? Yeah, I think so. And I think that's the biggest thing for me is being a light myself and being as bright as I can because that inspires others. And inspiration, I believe, is that when you recognize a piece of yourself in someone else. And I've been truly inspired by some of the amazing people in this profession because I recognize a piece of myself in them, and I see the potential that I have for growth. And, you know, especially for some of the students that I talk to and I give advice to, I tell them, like, “you are the hero of your own story. You know, you have this light inside of you. Focus on growing that light. You have a message. You have a story. Use that story. Use that message to empower people. Empower yourself.” We all have a different walk of life that we come from and it's just about understanding, turning our pain into purpose, turning our mess into our message.
I love that. Pain into purpose and mess into a message. Yeah, that really is profound. We have talked about a lot and it's been really important. Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you just feel like you must share that you wish everybody would know?
Well, I would just like to share with people, you know, what my next future endeavors are. And so I am going to be going back to my home country, Monaco.Where I was born, where my family is, and to be able to create the first Craniocervical clinic in Monaco. And for me, I feel that all of the events that have happened to me in my life have happened to me for a purpose and an order. I believe that everything in life has purpose and order, and it's up to you to be aware of what that purpose and order is. And I was just thinking, the other day, when I was hiking in Zion National Park, I was like, what do I really want in life? What was the accumulation of me learning everything in my life? Being born in Monaco, coming back to the U. S. Visiting my family every summer, getting into this amazing profession of chiropractic, being able to get into this amazing specialty of Upper Cervical care and to be able to bring that just amazing healthcare specialty and profession to a place that doesn't have it at all. And to be able to be closer to my family and to be able to really create a movement over there. And I know that I have tremendous respect for your husband, you know, Dr. Elder, for being able to go to Europe and be able to go there and teach because I think there's so many people that would be really interested in the specialty of Upper Cervical. They just don't know about it.
Yes. And I'm right with you there. And I have a similar story being that I'm from Norway and I'm really, really happy that now there is somebody who's learning a Blair Upper Cervical in Norway and hae signed up to really take the courses to get through the certification process, learn all of it. So I guess, it's the beginning of - or the next step in our movement.
It is the next step. So I'm really excited. And especially, you know, being able to have the mentorship and the additional training. Like I'm registered for the Diplomate Chiropractic Craniocervical Junction Procedures, which, you know, Dr. Elder was able to go through that program and I was able to interview him about how profoundly different he was after that program and how it inspired him to be able to, you know, advance this profession and advance the specialty.
He was already a very good doctor before that, but it really took it to the next level. So the diplomate, we've talked about that on this show before, but if this is the first episode you're listening to, it's a degree on top of the degree where you would just focus on and on learning all things about the head and neck.
It's a three year training, 300 credit hours. Where you are getting a deep dive into neurology, biomechanics, advanced imaging, you know, for you to be able to really excel in this specialty of Upper Cervical work. And, you know, I really admire Dr. Elder for just being a lifelong student. And I think of that as myself. Like, you get your kind of, basic education and chiropractic school. But then afterwards it's, do you want to specialize in something? Do you really want to get into a niche? And for me, it's always been Upper Cervical. So as soon as the opportunity presented itself to be able to sign up for the diplomate program, it was automatic. And for me, I really want to be able to help bring Upper Cervical to Europe because I think that it's just a ripe environment. A lot of people are interested and there's a lot of growth and potential.
Yeah. I know that you have a wonderful message. You have so much to say and what I'm going to do, you'll send me all the links. We haven't even touched on your podcast, so you send me all the links to your social media, to your podcast. Then I want to encourage my listeners and maybe especially my younger listeners, to follow Dr. Luca O'Brien. Do you wanna give a handle really quickly before we close it or should I just put it in the notes?
Yeah, so if you wanna follow me on Instagram, it's @Dr.Luca.Ob. And that's the same handle for my TikTok, for my YouTube and then also on Facebook, I'm Luca O'Brien. And if you ever have any questions or you feel inspired by this story and you want to learn more, you know, feel free to reach out. I love being able to talk to people and being able to help people in the direction of their life.
Yeah. And your podcast is called what?
The podcast right now is being developed. It's called Living in Lux. And so I had a previous podcast called, Keeping Coherence United. And we had some doctors on there, and then now I'm transitioning to another podcast. We also have a podcast for the ICA Council on Upper Cervical Care called Cranioscervical Conversations. So I'm involved in multiple podcasts, So, multiple projects. But if you just follow me on the social media, you'll be able to see all of that and to stay touch.
Okay, very good. I thank you so much for taking the time to take a break from your conference and come up and talk to us.
Well, thank you so much, Ruth.